‘they looked exactly like us’

Amid earnest efforts at space supremacy and a return to the Moon, an “insane” story of a decades-past CIA program wondered at what may have already been found on the dark side.

Stretching back to President Donald Trump’s first administration, where he established the U.S. Space Force, a 2024 target was set for the Artemis mission to return to the Moon, only to be waylaid under the Biden-Harris administration. Now, as Trump invests billions into lunar exploration, a guest on “The Joe Rogan Experience” reminded that some government projects suggested there to be known alien bases on the unseen surface of the Moon.

In the latest installment of the podcast, Jesse Michels, host of “American Alchemy,” which explores controversial topics in science and culture, joined Rogan and raised the matter of the CIA program Project Stargate that included work from Ingo Swann, a man said to be able to “remote view” what was happening on the dark side of the Moon.

“Lowest probability craziest thing is Ingo Swann, who was another remote viewer in the Stargate program, he wrote a book called ‘Penetration’ where he’s basically like abducted by this guy in a suit, like it’s kind of Men in Black-style guy, named Axelrod and he is told to remote view the Moon,” explained Michels. “And he remote views an alien base … I mean, the book is insane.”

Extraterrestrial civilizations could be even closer to us than Mars.

Michels told Rogan that the CIA’s remote viewing program saw an “alien base on the Moon.”

“Ingo Swann … wrote a book called Penetration, where he’s basically abducted by … this Men in Black style guy named… pic.twitter.com/gUAgal69MO

— Holden Culotta (@Holden_Culotta) June 4, 2025

Having died in January 2013 at the age of 79, Swann had worked nearly 25 years with the U.S. government on remote viewing and applications dating back to the 70s. According to his book, he claimed the government was aware of the bases on the Moon and that the aliens “looked exactly like us.”

“I found towers, machinery, lights of different colors, strange-looking buildings,” he wrote in 1998. “I found bridges whose function I couldn’t figure out. There were a lot of domes of various sizes.”

He went on to state, the aliens pointed in his direction, and he asked Axelrod, “They somehow have told you to stay away. That’s why you are resorting to psychic perceptions. They are not friendly, are they?”

Swann was told he was “approximately correct… but not completely so,” and declassified documents said similar remote viewing experiments had been conducted on Mars, where SpaceX founder and CEO Elon Musk aims to land a Starship by 2026.

While a number of congressional hearings in recent years had endeavored to declassify what the government did or did not know regarding UFOs, now referred to as UAPs or unidentified aerial phenomena, the segment on Rogan’s podcast went on to include a clip of late U.S. Air Force Sgt. Karle Wolfe, who claimed to have been shown photographs of large bases on the dark side of the moon obtained by the 1966 Lunar Orbiter mission.

Meanwhile, President Donald Trump’s skinny budget proposal in May noted the priority of “beating China back to the Moon and on putting the first human on Mars.”

The administration targeted $7 billion for lunar exploration along with $1 billion for Mars-focused programs after cutting $6 billion toward International Space Station operations and the president asserted on National Astronaut Day, “Under my leadership, America’s space program will continue to push the boundaries of discoveries, with bold plans for lunar missions, Mars exploration, and beyond. By fostering innovation, strengthening our partnerships with private space companies, and advancing our technological capabilities, we are ensuring that the United States remains the global leader in space for generations to come.”

Staff Writer

Native of Brooklyn, NY, Kevin Haggerty is a graduate of Hunter College where he studied Cultural Anthropology and Geography. An avid reader and truth seeker, he currently resides in Texas with his wife and their dog and, when he isn’t researching current events and their impacts, you’ll find him spending time with friends and family or working on his next novel.

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